Candidate Interview with Santa Barbara Women Lawyers

By Colleen K. Sterne

Colleen K. Sterne answers questions posed by her colleagues in Santa Barbara Women Lawyers.

1. What are the most important issues women lawyers face in the profession today?

The issues facing women as attorneys are, for the most part, the same as those faced by the bar as a whole. We need to improve the reputation of attorneys and the courts in the eyes of the general public, through education, service to the community and the best quality of practice possible. We need to work to improve access to justice for all, focusing on the needs of the middle class and small business, as well as the poor and underserved. Attorneys also face many of the same challenges that other businesses face in times of economic slowdown, problems that effect levels of attorney employment, profitability, staffing issues: the whole spectrum of economic matters. That said, women, minorities and those with disabilities still face a glass ceiling in the legal profession. Women are not represented in the upper echelons of legal firms, in the judiciary and in positions of professional leadership in proportion to their numbers, although more and more have the education and experience to qualify them for such roles. Women attorneys continue to be challenged by many of the same issues confronting women in the workplace as a whole, including childcare, eldercare and balancing the responsibilities of work and home. Women still need to have heightened awareness and be prepared to be proactive when faced with individual incidents of bias or institutionalized inequality.

2. The MCLE requirement for one unit of Elimination of Bias credit has been controversial amongst bar members. The majority of lawyers believe that the requirement is not needed or helpful in the elimination of bias and that the courses are not useful. What do you think? What is your view?

Education in cultural understanding is a good thing, necessary to improve communication of all kinds in our multicultural society. I would agree that often the MCLE offerings are not as interesting or helpful as they might be, but that is true of all kinds of MCLE programs. A qualified provider offering excellent content is necessary for the educational experience to be truly valuable. I have had the good fortune to obtain education in this area from the Straus Institute for Dispute Resolution at Pepperdine University, but programs of that quality are not widely available and do not address the needs of the Bar at large. I favor retention of the Elimination of Bias requirement, but would like to see better quality course offerings in communication and cultural awareness.

3. Do you think there is bias within the courts? Please explain.

There is bias everywhere. To be human is to have bias of many kinds, on many levels. The important thing is to be aware of the biases we carry within us, in order that we may address them where appropriate. Of course there is bias within the courts, personal and institutional, and it would be virtually impossible to eliminate it 100%. For example, the courts are biased toward those who are literate, and within that group, toward those who are literate in English. Yet I don't think any of us would say, for that reason, that we should do away with use of English in the court, although we might say, "let's increase non-English language services" and "let's try to increase literacy." Much has been done to help integrate women, all races and ethnicities and disabled persons into full functioning within the legal profession. For women, in particular, issues of bias have become increasingly subtle. Most women attorneys would agree, I think, that moving about the legal world in and out of court as an advocate does not expose one to much overt bias these days. But women still face issues that effect perception of the level at which women function in the profession. Women litigants still face issues as well, based largely upon economics, upon persistent cultural forms that do not hear womens' voices clearly, and upon a system that values competitive virtues more than collaborative ones.

4. Can you provide an example(s) of bias within the profession you have witnessed or heard about?

I personally experienced some instances of communication-based bias early in my career (for example, one memorable courtroom appearance in San Jose where opposing counsel, an older gentleman, called me "honey". The judge, to his credit, corrected counsel.) I did not find such instances overly disconcerting. Lawyers have to be ready for some level of conflict, and you never know where you may encounter rudeness. Interestingly, and rather oddly, improvements in dealing with bias per se have gone hand in hand with a decline in ordinary civility among everyone in the legal profession. I think all men and women in our profession should value civility highly and act treat each other with dignity and respect.

More challenging are the more subtle matters relating to the glass ceiling. I experienced some glass ceiling issues early in my career, when dealing with large institutional clients. I was fortunate in that the early years of my career coincided with a period of great advancement for women, when women were starting to permeate all levels of corporate life. As this occurred, acceptance of me as an attorney increased, and after a couple of years I felt my gender was irrelevant. But I hear from other women that they still face significant glass ceiling problems, and the data reporting this phenomenon are credible. The numbers do speak for themselves.

5. Do you think diversity within the profession reflects the diversity of American society? Please explain.

Women are attending law school at a level essentially in parity with men, and that changing demographic will permeate the profession in coming years. Racial and ethnic groups and persons with disabilities are not achieving the same sort of parity. The roots of this go so very deep- as deep as early family experience and primary education. Addressing this type of inequality has to start there. It is hard to talk about numbers of people in a profession like the law, without looking at the total course of their lives and education. This is not an issue to be addressed by lawyers alone, but by lawyers in partnership with their society.

6. What do you think should be done to increase the number of women judges?

First and foremost, more women must apply for appointment and run for election when the opportunity arises. Those who would like to see more women on the bench need to be active in their support, by contacting the Governor and voicing their opinion during the appointment process, and by actively supporting the woman candidate of their choice when an opening is to be filled by election. I am very happy that two of the four candidates running in our current election are women- this is as it should be!

7. SBWL did a survey of salaries in 1997, the results showed a large gap between the salaries of men and women. Why do you think there is a salary gap? Do you believe the men/women salary gap has changed since then and how? Why do you think their are comparatively few women partners in larger firms?

The reasons for the salary gap in the law are the same as the reasons for the persistent salary gap in the workforce as a whole. It is very complex issue. The reasons stretch across the whole spectrum of human activity, social, cultural and economic. The lack of women at the top has to do with familiar societal factors. Women, the humans who give birth and traditionally shoulder more of the care of the family, often find their careers limited or interrupted one or more times during their lives. Such experience does effect qualification, in the sense that a multiyear gap in employment, or several shorter gaps, may put one behind a co-worker whose service has been uninterrupted. There are also issues of how efforts to balance work and homelife are interpreted on a daily basis by employers. Many employers, men and women, are trying hard to improve these conditions, but we have more to do.

8. As a judge, if you witnessed or observed biased behavior how would you deal with the situation? Please give an example for (1) colleague, (2) attorney, and (3) court employee.

Under Canon 3, sections (5) and (6) of the Code of Judicial Ethics, a judge is not to manifest bias or prejudice or permit such activity in court. Under Canon 3-D, sections (1) and (2), a judge who observes an ethical violation by a fellow judge or by counsel is required to take appropriate corrective action, including a report to the appropriate authority if necessary. If I observed bias on the part of a judicial colleague, I would speak to that person privately to urge corrected behavior. If the problem was an ongoing course of conduct, or activity that was particularly overt and not informally correctable, I would consider how best to address the matter in the community of judges, through discussion with the presiding judge and other judicial colleagues. If such intervention is ineffective, then there is always the option of a report to the Commission on Judicial Performance. With respect to attorneys, much would depend upon the type of bias and how it arises. For example, sometimes an offhand comment or an inappropriate form of address is best dealt with in the moment with a firm word or two. As with judicial colleagues, the next step would be a quiet word alone with the attorney. As with any other inappropriate behavior, response would increase with the level of seriousness, up to and including reporting to the Bar. With an employee, the situation would be similar. I would expect to set the tone in the courtroom in which I serve. I value civility and equality very highly, and would expect appropriate behavior from court staff. A minor issue would result in discussion with the staff person, and again, the degree of further response would depend upon the persistence and seriousness of the problem.

9. What do you think are the greatest challenges for women, children, and disabled litigants within the courts?

The greatest issues for women, children, and the disabled have their roots in economic, cultural and political factors that limit access to justice. Interactions in and with the courts cost money, money that women, children and the disabled, the least economically advantaged in our society, often lack. The underserved often come to our courts speaking languages other than English and unused to coping with the court's particular style of bureaucracy. These groups (children most particularly) often have difficulty making their presence felt at the ballot box. Of course, it must be said that the courts exist to do a particular job in our society, and they are ill-prepared (and ill-suited) to solve all of society's ills. For the courts to maintain and preserve our constitutional rights, matters of process, in particular, require a certain degree of complexity, particularity and sophistication not easily remedied for those not well equipped to deal with the system. There are people of good will inside and outside the court system working on these matters; but energy and vigilance are required to solidify gains and continue improvement.

10. Please provide a short paragraph describing why you should be elected as a Judge as well as something people do not know about you.

I have the appropriate education, experience and temperament to be a good judge. As a mediator and arbitrator, I am accustomed to acting as a neutral and as a decision-maker. I have a strong sense of service about being a judge. The legal profession and the community have given me much, and I have a desire to do the work of a judge with the needs of the profession and the community in mind. The courts help people in conflict and are the first line of defense of our constitutional rights - there could be nothing more satisfying than placing all of my skill and effort into being a good judge for Santa Barbara County.

One thing that many people don't know about me is that I once spent a weekend on a ranch in Montana with 100 Schipperkees. It is a long story- catch me at the right moment and I'll regale you with it! I have two Schipperkee dogs myself, and am involved in a group that does breed rescue nationwide.